The following talks were published in the Journal of the IOI Group Cientodiez.
the end the original source
Ideology and Technical
Conversations JAIME LERNER
I think that to change a city for the better, there are several factors that are important. First, political will. Second, solidarity, have a vision of solidarity with the people. Third, have a strategy and fourth, to make each issue of a city, an equation of responsibilities. After nearly 40 years working in the city, I believe, and I can swear that a city can improve in less than three years. No matter the scale of the city or the resources it has available, for every problem you can mount a co-responsibility equation, in the case of transport in Curitiba, we had no resources for an entire fleet, and what we did: the municipality defined the proposed system and the private that "we invest in the itinerary and you in the fleet, and we will pay per mile road." This saves $ 300 million, because they were the private who purchased the fleet and the system in Curitiba will pay for itself, there are no subsidies.
Another thing. I have contacts with very sophisticated planning structures. Many times they can not even answer two simple questions: First, to where the city is growing, or what is the structure of growth in the city; Second, how is that the people of this city lives. These are two fundamental questions. I think that a city that has good quality of life, has enough attraction for investment can create jobs. The quality of life is a good generator of jobs.
When I asked how to get things done, my answer is this: To do the things necessary to propose a scenario, an idea, a proposal that all, or most people understand as desirable. Hence all help make happen. If people, or politicians, or the technicians do not understand what the stage to propose to the people either do not know how to communicate this scenario, it is clear that things will become very difficult. The proposal for the city should be very clear, from the technical to the people making policy decisions, and part of the people taking policy decisions to the public. Sometimes some people think they have a lifetime to plan, you always have to feed the policy makers, who have that responsibility, with ideas, proposals. That is what is needed, because the city is not as complex as the complexity vendors want us to understand. The city is not so complex, and the world is full of sellers of complexity, we must fight to tons. Marcial Echenique
I've always trusted and have been pioneering the use of simulation models because they allow decisions to take some kind of long and short term. These role models are representations of the functioning of a city, how people behave in space. The best known in economics and urban development are simulation models of people's behavior, which is updated as income increases. One can predict the short term, long-term conditions, as people will need more mobility.
IIO - sustainability is commonly taken in the environmental technology field, but we know that the problem involves economic and political scales, at least what is the competence of an architect in this discussion?
ME - The architect to provide a vision for the city, its development and design, must be prepared on the two scales. I think the architect is capable of synthesis, to develop forms in space, which makes a hypothesis on the city design.
The architect has an important role, but unfortunately not ready enough to embrace and understand all the factors that influence decision making. You have to understand how people behave, and understand that the city is a market where people make decisions individually to gain an advantage. It is a market with buildings, houses, commercial, office, is a functioning market, with demand for space and a given supply of real estate operators. You have to really understand how it works, because you can not go against the market. With our democracies and in our liberal society we have to follow the market and not against, because the market simply ignores you. But in order to guide the market is to really understand the socioeconomics of the country and how that relates to social behavior. If you do not have the vision nor the capacity to understand this has nothing to say, so decisions are made by other disciplines generally.
What happens today is that architects are marginalized urban design, and is in the hands of people from geography, economics, engineering, because really knows how to communicate or participate in making decisions that are ultimately political, because they have no argument . Few
Architects design quality also can handle the vast majority is outside the decision making level of government, because they have a distinct language, not using the right words and do not have a deep understanding of the problem.
ORDONEZ JOSE LUIS GOMEZ
IOI-In a country that has adopted a neoliberal orthodoxy, political parties do not differ much about economics, there are approaches that correspond to base an ideological basis that is not disputed. With respect to the city, it sometimes seems that it is necessary to go back and discuss issues that are taken for granted.
JLGO - This ideology seems to confront the practical that solve the problems with the idealists, that although they have very good principles, not know how to govern. Leaving this image, I move to another area, that of the sectoral discussion of different scales, different powers, different social groups. A plan that was able to draw the city of the future, would generate social processes to intercede in the decision-making and the taking of his unique voice to some sectors or policies. True, this lethargic decision-making, it is not ditching a four-year discussion, but if you grow multiparticipación, the multiscale, where the decisions are numerous, economic, strategic, spatial, sectoral. Not to mention ideology, but referring to the technical field. It is the fear of appearing complexities neoliberal ideology behind it.
IIO - As Norbert Lechner, the role of politics is to extend the limit as possible. Now it seems he understands that politics, understood as participation and discussion about the reality we choose collectively, hampers and limits further. Enriching these processes, but may be long, wide limits.
JLGO - Yes, space projects is to invent possible. Today, more than the emphasis on the feasibility on what can be done, polarized by the neoliberal discourse, it is opening new perspectives. What you can do is one thing, and what you can do if unleashed energy, inventing new processes that we have not displayed yet, it may be another. Historical-political terms, capitalism is a machine to create new niches of production in that sense uses space in an abusive, predatory, create niches for new consumption, it is a continuous search for new markets rapidly. The paradox, and this very well David Harvey notes, is how this construction of the space, once it is transformed into physical capital, also generates resistance. Ie, it leaves behind areas resistant to change, the own capital needs be creating new, but is destroying those already capitalized, so, for example, as now they are destroying schools. Then there are the contradictions in the capitalist system: it takes very short playing times, where financial capital is instant, but also needs organizational capital, knowledge economy both exalt the economists who need long times. The slow time of construction is important in urban design and architecture is, that capital that is embodied in constructions of space, is a locking mechanism of insturación slow turnaround time.
IIO - This idea is related with the concept that Francois Ascher used to refer to the project as a bargaining tool.
JLGO - Ascher also speaks of the importance of procedures. There is a plan that will draw and organize everything, the plan is one of the hundred tools and social space of a city like Santiago. Probably now there is a lack of agents of social organization, and therefore some destruction occurs. These fast-moving and long distance cutting obstacles, slow connections, breaking the contact between adjacent sites, caused by large artery arising just avoid organizations that put into question the decision perpetuating the system that marginalizes them. But I I think to go to any intermediate stops driving the two-dimensional problems in that long and short term, but also large-scale and • reduced scope, can be a pretty efficient way to address the spatial forms of social processes no one is in position to challenge as inadequate or as ideologically biased.
do you do from the situation we have now, what improvements can be made from this platform, where they can bury the highway. Just in wealthy neighborhoods?, It does not. Thousands of jobs on a huge city like this can not be solved with a brushstroke. ALEJANDRO GUTIERREZ
The fundamental issue of reconciling the short and long term is to have appropriate mechanisms that encourage such relationships. If you forget to measure and quantify the costs of operation of a project, obviously you're going to forget the long term. If you start to include those costs in an economic chain, will you remember the long term, and you'll start to see what are the advantages of doing things a certain way in the short term, that is when you make decisions . One of the key things when you make large-scale real estate projects, is to identify the operating costs of the project in the long term. It is increasingly being done, and increasingly in our place intending customer, it is the client he hopes to have those answers.
regard to local realities, we must generate R & D in Chile, to take their own knowledge about the region you are. It is also important mechanisms of environmental legislation requiring them to integrate. I believe that in Chile there are some powerful mechanisms at the level of environmental legislation, but not incorporated as usual aspects of the procedure, now you have Environmental Impact Assessments and Environmental Impact Statement, a legal framework that is conducive to solutions integrated, which are complex from the point of view of their application and therefore require a technical team, I think that in Chile there are such human capital with the proper knowledge, but the problem is that you have adapted to these new mechanisms have been proposed at the level of environmental planning, to integrate into the project environmental impacts it generates.
The issue of social equity is a central theme of sustainability. If you manage to take environmental sustainability, and are unable to have social sustainability, the truth is that your environmental sustainability will last very little. You should always try to take it and tackle both issues, but there is no chance of that time are continuing positively. For example, if you have a sustainable neighborhood green, from the environmental standpoint, but exclusive social point of view, people will live there will not be working there, and people who have to work there will not be able to live there, so it's going to have to move, and that's going to have to spend energy and here 15 years will take fossil fuels and thus emit emissions, which ultimately does not environmentally sustainable. In the end, the sustainability is an integrated suite. Environmental and social sustainability play a favor from the other, can not be isolated.
Original source:
http://cientodiez.cl/revistas/vol07/ideologia.html
the end the original source
Ideology and Technical
Conversations JAIME LERNER
I think that to change a city for the better, there are several factors that are important. First, political will. Second, solidarity, have a vision of solidarity with the people. Third, have a strategy and fourth, to make each issue of a city, an equation of responsibilities. After nearly 40 years working in the city, I believe, and I can swear that a city can improve in less than three years. No matter the scale of the city or the resources it has available, for every problem you can mount a co-responsibility equation, in the case of transport in Curitiba, we had no resources for an entire fleet, and what we did: the municipality defined the proposed system and the private that "we invest in the itinerary and you in the fleet, and we will pay per mile road." This saves $ 300 million, because they were the private who purchased the fleet and the system in Curitiba will pay for itself, there are no subsidies.
Another thing. I have contacts with very sophisticated planning structures. Many times they can not even answer two simple questions: First, to where the city is growing, or what is the structure of growth in the city; Second, how is that the people of this city lives. These are two fundamental questions. I think that a city that has good quality of life, has enough attraction for investment can create jobs. The quality of life is a good generator of jobs.
When I asked how to get things done, my answer is this: To do the things necessary to propose a scenario, an idea, a proposal that all, or most people understand as desirable. Hence all help make happen. If people, or politicians, or the technicians do not understand what the stage to propose to the people either do not know how to communicate this scenario, it is clear that things will become very difficult. The proposal for the city should be very clear, from the technical to the people making policy decisions, and part of the people taking policy decisions to the public. Sometimes some people think they have a lifetime to plan, you always have to feed the policy makers, who have that responsibility, with ideas, proposals. That is what is needed, because the city is not as complex as the complexity vendors want us to understand. The city is not so complex, and the world is full of sellers of complexity, we must fight to tons. Marcial Echenique
I've always trusted and have been pioneering the use of simulation models because they allow decisions to take some kind of long and short term. These role models are representations of the functioning of a city, how people behave in space. The best known in economics and urban development are simulation models of people's behavior, which is updated as income increases. One can predict the short term, long-term conditions, as people will need more mobility.
IIO - sustainability is commonly taken in the environmental technology field, but we know that the problem involves economic and political scales, at least what is the competence of an architect in this discussion?
ME - The architect to provide a vision for the city, its development and design, must be prepared on the two scales. I think the architect is capable of synthesis, to develop forms in space, which makes a hypothesis on the city design.
The architect has an important role, but unfortunately not ready enough to embrace and understand all the factors that influence decision making. You have to understand how people behave, and understand that the city is a market where people make decisions individually to gain an advantage. It is a market with buildings, houses, commercial, office, is a functioning market, with demand for space and a given supply of real estate operators. You have to really understand how it works, because you can not go against the market. With our democracies and in our liberal society we have to follow the market and not against, because the market simply ignores you. But in order to guide the market is to really understand the socioeconomics of the country and how that relates to social behavior. If you do not have the vision nor the capacity to understand this has nothing to say, so decisions are made by other disciplines generally.
What happens today is that architects are marginalized urban design, and is in the hands of people from geography, economics, engineering, because really knows how to communicate or participate in making decisions that are ultimately political, because they have no argument . Few
Architects design quality also can handle the vast majority is outside the decision making level of government, because they have a distinct language, not using the right words and do not have a deep understanding of the problem.
ORDONEZ JOSE LUIS GOMEZ
IOI-In a country that has adopted a neoliberal orthodoxy, political parties do not differ much about economics, there are approaches that correspond to base an ideological basis that is not disputed. With respect to the city, it sometimes seems that it is necessary to go back and discuss issues that are taken for granted.
JLGO - This ideology seems to confront the practical that solve the problems with the idealists, that although they have very good principles, not know how to govern. Leaving this image, I move to another area, that of the sectoral discussion of different scales, different powers, different social groups. A plan that was able to draw the city of the future, would generate social processes to intercede in the decision-making and the taking of his unique voice to some sectors or policies. True, this lethargic decision-making, it is not ditching a four-year discussion, but if you grow multiparticipación, the multiscale, where the decisions are numerous, economic, strategic, spatial, sectoral. Not to mention ideology, but referring to the technical field. It is the fear of appearing complexities neoliberal ideology behind it.
IIO - As Norbert Lechner, the role of politics is to extend the limit as possible. Now it seems he understands that politics, understood as participation and discussion about the reality we choose collectively, hampers and limits further. Enriching these processes, but may be long, wide limits.
JLGO - Yes, space projects is to invent possible. Today, more than the emphasis on the feasibility on what can be done, polarized by the neoliberal discourse, it is opening new perspectives. What you can do is one thing, and what you can do if unleashed energy, inventing new processes that we have not displayed yet, it may be another. Historical-political terms, capitalism is a machine to create new niches of production in that sense uses space in an abusive, predatory, create niches for new consumption, it is a continuous search for new markets rapidly. The paradox, and this very well David Harvey notes, is how this construction of the space, once it is transformed into physical capital, also generates resistance. Ie, it leaves behind areas resistant to change, the own capital needs be creating new, but is destroying those already capitalized, so, for example, as now they are destroying schools. Then there are the contradictions in the capitalist system: it takes very short playing times, where financial capital is instant, but also needs organizational capital, knowledge economy both exalt the economists who need long times. The slow time of construction is important in urban design and architecture is, that capital that is embodied in constructions of space, is a locking mechanism of insturación slow turnaround time.
IIO - This idea is related with the concept that Francois Ascher used to refer to the project as a bargaining tool.
JLGO - Ascher also speaks of the importance of procedures. There is a plan that will draw and organize everything, the plan is one of the hundred tools and social space of a city like Santiago. Probably now there is a lack of agents of social organization, and therefore some destruction occurs. These fast-moving and long distance cutting obstacles, slow connections, breaking the contact between adjacent sites, caused by large artery arising just avoid organizations that put into question the decision perpetuating the system that marginalizes them. But I I think to go to any intermediate stops driving the two-dimensional problems in that long and short term, but also large-scale and • reduced scope, can be a pretty efficient way to address the spatial forms of social processes no one is in position to challenge as inadequate or as ideologically biased.
do you do from the situation we have now, what improvements can be made from this platform, where they can bury the highway. Just in wealthy neighborhoods?, It does not. Thousands of jobs on a huge city like this can not be solved with a brushstroke. ALEJANDRO GUTIERREZ
The fundamental issue of reconciling the short and long term is to have appropriate mechanisms that encourage such relationships. If you forget to measure and quantify the costs of operation of a project, obviously you're going to forget the long term. If you start to include those costs in an economic chain, will you remember the long term, and you'll start to see what are the advantages of doing things a certain way in the short term, that is when you make decisions . One of the key things when you make large-scale real estate projects, is to identify the operating costs of the project in the long term. It is increasingly being done, and increasingly in our place intending customer, it is the client he hopes to have those answers.
regard to local realities, we must generate R & D in Chile, to take their own knowledge about the region you are. It is also important mechanisms of environmental legislation requiring them to integrate. I believe that in Chile there are some powerful mechanisms at the level of environmental legislation, but not incorporated as usual aspects of the procedure, now you have Environmental Impact Assessments and Environmental Impact Statement, a legal framework that is conducive to solutions integrated, which are complex from the point of view of their application and therefore require a technical team, I think that in Chile there are such human capital with the proper knowledge, but the problem is that you have adapted to these new mechanisms have been proposed at the level of environmental planning, to integrate into the project environmental impacts it generates.
The issue of social equity is a central theme of sustainability. If you manage to take environmental sustainability, and are unable to have social sustainability, the truth is that your environmental sustainability will last very little. You should always try to take it and tackle both issues, but there is no chance of that time are continuing positively. For example, if you have a sustainable neighborhood green, from the environmental standpoint, but exclusive social point of view, people will live there will not be working there, and people who have to work there will not be able to live there, so it's going to have to move, and that's going to have to spend energy and here 15 years will take fossil fuels and thus emit emissions, which ultimately does not environmentally sustainable. In the end, the sustainability is an integrated suite. Environmental and social sustainability play a favor from the other, can not be isolated.
Original source:
http://cientodiez.cl/revistas/vol07/ideologia.html
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